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Talk:Goku VS Superman 2/@comment-14017325-20160406151545/@comment-24152851-20160413023152
I also used evidence that Superman can't be limitless because his power sources are not limitless. Any sun he charges up on is not infinite, and will burn out eventually. Sure you can argue the sun's power is colossal compared to anything and anyone. But that doesn't change the fact that it's not infinite. "Finite limited energy source = finite limited power for the Solar Battery known as Superman". There's also me bringing up Superman does not always succeed in every physical feat. Since he does not have a 100% success rate, then clearly he is not limitless. You can argue that it's a mental strain all you like, that does not change the fact that he is NOT an omnipotent god who can do whatever he wants. And that's where your argument gets problematic. With fight threads you MUST use the maximum confirmed proven onscreen feat. You cannot speculate "because he's theoretically limitless, we can make him do whatever we want in this fight". Why? Because anyone can say that for any character to ever exist. More commonly known as fanboy logic. Doesn't matter why it happens in stories. With What-If fight you need to ignore PIS and asspulls, and just use the facts that are shown. Regardless of why he doesn't succeed all the time, you cannot change the fact that he doesn't. Hence NOT limitless. Well genius, what do inhibitors and mental strain qualify as? Surprise! Those are limitations! But they are not allowed to make up and theorize his maximum potential. Only what is his absolute highest/most impressive feat he has performed onscreen. They pulled this BS in that fight by saying "if Goku could find a way to draw energy across multiverses, his spirit bomb could possibly achieve the kind of limitless power to match Superman." Superman has been beaten by far less than multiverse levels of power before on countless occasions. I brought that up to show the sun wasn't limitless, and evidence that Superman wasn't limitless. I never said the fight would go on for several billion years. Because you kept bringing up "Superman has no limit" as the go to answer for everything, and I was invalidating that claim. I'm not gonna get into that immortality stuff. Not relevant in this discussion. Thank you. And I just said no matter what is powering Supes, none of those are limitless. Unless he gets powered by the Big Bang which created the universe, nothing else can give him infinite power. Philosophical underpinnings do not change how strong a character is. That might change their storyline, but it should not effect a theoretical fight. Spider-Man is all about "never give up at any cost, and triumph over who's stronger with wits" but that doesn't mean he'll beat Galactus despite his philosophy typically dictating he'll win. Well don't use the "inconsistency" argument against me when debating against Goku, if you won't accept it against Superman. #Blatant assumption on your own part they're talking about Prime. #Why would the "Ultimate Guide to Superman" be talking about Prime in his general guide about his abilities? #Show me where it said anything about "mental barriers" in that source. No, anyone with common sense would understand that was about his physical abilities. Wiz: 'To ensure no questions are left unanswered, we will be acknowledging every official resource for both combatants, though the original writings hold precedence. No mistranslations allowed. Also, as he was retconned and rebuilt in 1986, we will be examining the modern Superman. They can claim that all they like, but a lot of people have seen errors in that statement from what they actually ended up doing. They have been using feats from multiple versions of Superman, and NOT sticking to just modern version. And that is fanboy logic at it's finest. Going in firmly believing one combatant would win, and outright ignoring what the other one will do. They go in thinking "Goku never had a chance from the start" and throw aside any feat that Goku has done, because in their eyes, no matter what he does it will never be greater than Superman. If Goku reached freaking Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 and destroyed the universe by blinking, they would still say "Superman is stronger, no matter what Goku does, because he's Superman". Well analyze the bloody feats of the opponent before making statements like that. I've said before and I'll say again, Superman does not win every non-Kryptonite fight, regardless of the claims that he's limitless. Perhaps Goku would lose, but it would not be as a badly as they made him in the video. Superman was far more OP in their vid than he would realistically have been. No way Superman can walk through a God Kamehameha without being effected, while punches (which should be much lesser than a Kamehameha) are able to knock him back. Well even if that's the case (which I don't agree with), that means his physical ability is limited by mental ability. Regardless of whether it's all in his mind, fact is for whatever given reason sometimes he cannot beat certain enemies or perform certain feats. His weaknesses are part of his character, and fight analyzers should not ignore those just so they can be at their alleged "peak". Oh really? Then how come whenever we have a debate, it's always you who goes running off when you have nothing left to counter my arguments? Not relevant, but could either be rebooted or could be retired forever. Depends if someone pays enough money to buy the rights to keep making Dragon Ball and if it's able to keep on going successfully. If it can't draw in more fans, then it dies off.